Tell Your Leadership and Sales Story

Sarah Victory

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Mark S A Smith: My guest today on the Selling Disruption Show is Sarah Victory, who I have known for 25 years. She was my very first speech coach when I started doing road work, doing the Guerrilla Selling program in live format. She came along, watched me, made some adjustments, and substantially improved my ability to communicate with a wide range of people. And has been one of my favorite people to talk to since then. Her insights on how people’s brains work, how stories work, and how to be persuasive and compelling, and still be yourself, is extraordinary. Welcome, Sarah.

Sarah Victory: Well, thank you for having me. It’s lovely to be here.

Mark S A Smith: It is.

Sarah Victory: It’s lovely to get to talk to you.

Mark S A Smith: I know. We don’t do that nearly enough. You have a deep history in acting, in authorship, in coaching, working with executives, working with leaders, working with speakers, to help them connect with people and get their mission accomplished through persuading people to see their viewpoint. How do you go about doing that?

Sarah Victory: I think the story has a lot to do with how you persuade people. So I spend a lot of my time working with CEOs, professional speakers, motivational speakers, trainers, consultants, coaches, anybody who needs to persuade, I spend a lot of my time talking about the power of storytelling and how you can connect your soul to the soul of other people in a way that they are then connected to you forever, and they want to do business with you, they want to keep doing business with you, they can’t imagine doing business with anybody else, they can’t imagine working for anyone else.

Mark S A Smith: That’s a really powerful claim.

Sarah Victory: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Mark S A Smith: Making you the only desirable choice is what we all need to do to create a competition-proof environment. And we can do that through story. But it can’t be just about any story if we’re gonna do a soul-to-soul connection.

Sarah Victory: No, it can’t be just any old story, and I think that’s where people get caught up, is they’ll tell every detail of their life, whether it’s interesting or not, or they won’t tell any details and we miss the point. So you have to find story structure that allows you to connect to people. One of my favorite story structures is what I call a leader’s legacy story, which –

Mark S A Smith: Tell me more about that.

Sarah Victory: … it’s what leaders can use to connect to people. There’s a structure you could use that will always work to get people to love you, to just fall for your message, and fall for you as a person.

You start off in the beginning of the story and you talk about some kind of dream that you had or something that you wanted in your life. Maybe you wanted to be a terrific leader, maybe you wanted to have a business. And then you talk about the trials and tribulations that you went through and how tough it was in the beginning, because it’s always tough. And you talk about three things that were really tough. Maybe it was the working 80 hours a week, falling asleep on your desk, three things that were really, really difficult. And then you hit a low point. You actually say, “The absolute low point for me was when we lost our biggest account and I thought we were going to go under. I walked into my office, put my head down and burst into tears.” Something that is an absolute low point for you.

And then there’s some kind of catalyst that moves you forward. Maybe it’s something that a parent said, or a friend, or a mentor, or just you saying, “That’s it, this has to change. I am going to read every book I can get my hands on. I’m going to go to every class, find a mentor, find a teacher. I’m going to make a change.” And then things start to get better. And three things happen that are better. And it’s better, better, best. And finally, that dream that the person had in the beginning becomes a reality. And they get things beyond their wildest imagination of what could possibly happen.

Now that’s when people start wanting to buy from them or hear them speak about it, or read the book about what happened, or watch them on TV or listen to them on a podcast. If you can follow that kind of a structure, I call it a leader’s legacy structure, where it’s the legacy of what you have accomplished, if you do that with that precise structure, people will find a connection to you that is really powerful.

The trick is to find images and parts of the story that are really compelling. And not tell every single thing that ever happened to you since you were two.

Mark S A Smith: That’s really interesting. It’s you talk about the dream, you talk about your tough times with three things that were really tough, that people can relate to.

Sarah Victory: Right.

Mark S A Smith: And then you hit your absolute low point, where things look like they’re never gonna get to your dream, you’re not gonna go anywhere cool. Then you have the catalyst, where help shows up, somebody gives you some insight, some inspiration, you had a blinding flash, the obvious, there’s an epiphany, and then things get better. Three things happened, one after another, they get better. And again, three things that people can relate to. You know, I can see how that could –

Sarah Victory: Right.

Mark S A Smith: … happen. And then the new best outcome and then the new reality that other people would like to be a part of. I just wanted to recap that. But it’s a brilliant structure, and one that makes it very simple to create a story. But it seems to me as though you’re right, it’s finding the image in the story parts that are gonna be compelling and connecting that make this work. It can’t be just any three things. It has to connect.

Sarah Victory: It has to be little mini-movies, each one of those points. They have to be little sections of a movie that people can identify with. I had one guy was telling a story one time and he said he came into his grandmother’s house and he described the lace curtains and the doilies and just all those grandma kinds of things. It was really adorable. And then he said, “And then I found out she had made me some wonderful borscht.” And I said, “What?” I said, “Who’s gonna be able to identify with she made you wonderful borscht?” She made you cookies. And he said, “What?” And I said, “She made you cookies because everybody can identify with cookies, and nobody can identify with borscht.” And that’s all there is to it.

So it’s okay to change a few facts. Keep the truth of the story there. As long as you’re not changing the truth. If you pick things that are a little easier for people to relate to, then they’re going to connect with you a lot better.

Mark S A Smith: It’s important for people to understand that the connection that really precedes the minor detail. And it’d be a whole lot easier to believe a cookie, or at least connect to a cookie. It’s, “Grandma made me cookies,” and my grandmother made me cookies. She didn’t make me borscht.

Sarah Victory: Everybody’s grandmother made you cookies. Yeah, exactly.

Mark S A Smith: Right, exactly. So how long should a story like this be?

Sarah Victory: These stories can be anything from three minutes, if you’re gonna be doing television, you wanna do 30 seconds that captures the audience, and then two and a half minutes of telling this powerful story, all the way up to an hour. I have some keynote speakers that tell the whole entire story in such a way that maybe the majority of their hour is spent telling all these things that happened and how they apply to you and what you can do with them. And I have one client, Loren Michaels Harris, and he tells a story about how he had gone through the foster system and he had 22 different mothers. And what it was like and the most difficult parts of it.

Mark S A Smith: It means that he has a great Christmas.

Sarah Victory: In some ways. It also meant that he had some –

Mark S A Smith: Yes, of course.

Sarah Victory: … some terrible things happen.

Mark S A Smith: Yes.

Sarah Victory: But he does have several mothers he’s still connected to. We use that leader’s legacy story structure to talk about things he dreamed of as a kid and then how incredibly challenging it was going through that foster system. The absolute low point, when he lost his best friend who was strangled by a foster parent –

Mark S A Smith: Oh my.

Sarah Victory: … and then yeah, really tough –

Mark S A Smith: Wow, that’s heavy stuff.

Sarah Victory: After he’d gone into drug addiction and some of these other terrible things, how he came out of that and the things that’ve happened to him since that have made him quite famous and successful in the world. And now of course people all over the world want to hear him speak about this story and how it applies to all of us. We’ve all been through loss, we’ve all had tough times, we’ve all lost people we loved and we cared about. And even though his is more extreme than a lot of people have experienced, there’s still something that’s a fundamental human experience in it.

Mark S A Smith: Yes, indeed. And what you’re talking about, this is the leader’s legacy story. Let’s shift gears and talk about how a sales person might tell a story.

Sarah Victory: There are some great formulas you can use for stories as a sales person. One is what I call the drop-in story, which is where you just happen to drop in something about your clients. And that’s where you say here’s the problem that they were facing, here’s how we solved it, what we did about it, and here’s the great result they got.

Mark S A Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Sarah Victory: And so that might be something as simple as, “I had a client who was having a problem, couldn’t find a home that they wanted, that was right for them. We found some listings that other people couldn’t find for them, and the result was they found the perfect home that they were able to move into quickly and effortlessly and easily, and now they just adore me because I was able to find them something that nobody else could find.”

Mark S A Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Sarah Victory: It can be very simple. It’s that simple formula of what it is that was the problem or the desire. They were hoping for something that they didn’t have, and then the second piece is what did you do, and the third piece is, that people always forget, is what was the great result of that.

And if you just happen to tell a few of those types of stories, people can bond with the problem, especially if it’s a universal problem that everybody has, and people can get excited about the result and feel as though those problems that they’re having, “Oh wow. This is a person that can solve that for me.” And it gives them proof that you’ve done it before.

Mark S A Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That’s really a great point. Proof is how we persuade people. At least, let’s put it this way, relatable proof is how –

Sarah Victory: Relatable proof.

Mark S A Smith: … mm-hmm (affirmative) yeah, really important concept. Relevant, relatable proof is how we persuade people that we are a good option. And until we get people to that point to consider that we’re a good option, they can’t buy from us. By that point, they can decide that they can commit, but until we are put on that short list as, “Yeah, these folks can do it,” we haven’t got a chance.

Sarah Victory: Right.

Mark S A Smith: So this is a great way of doing it. What I really like about this is you can brag about yourself without bragging about yourself.

Sarah Victory: Exactly, exactly. Especially if you tie it back into them immediately after. You say, “And here’s how this applies to you. You can look at some of the things that we have that not everybody sees in the MLS, for example. We can help you with A, B, and C.”

Mark S A Smith: That’s really good. So we’re really adding a fourth step. It’s problem-solution-result, then application –

Sarah Victory: Right.

Mark S A Smith: … to the person we’re talking to.

Sarah Victory: Right.

Mark S A Smith: And if they agree to that, then we’ve moved them down the persuasion path to doing business with us.

Sarah Victory: Exactly. You’ve got them at the next step of the selling process.

Mark S A Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative), or the buying process, as I like to talk about.

Sarah Victory: Mm-hmm (affirmative), exactly, the buying process, yeah. Exactly. They’re moving along that continuum.

Mark S A Smith: That’s right. When we work with organizations, selling them complex, expensive things, which is one of my areas of expertise, we have contact with a lot of people up and down the decision-making food chain, potentially from front-line people such as folks who are doing purchasing, through management, through engineering, all the way up to CEO, perhaps even a Board of Directors, depending on how costly the purchase is. We’re gonna be having contact with them either personally or through our proposals. How can we tell stories perhaps on paper, in a proposal, that can make that connection with these executives as we move up? And how do we change the story we tell as we move up the food chain?

Sarah Victory: The whole thing starts with asking the right questions if you can. I mean sometimes you don’t have an opportunity. You’re writing a proposal and you’re sort of blind. But if you have a chance to, ask questions. That tells you what stories are really applicable.

Mark S A Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Sarah Victory: If you can say to somebody, “What is most important to you right now?” And, “What makes that so important?” And then say, “Is that a challenge for you? Is there something challenging about that? Are you concerned about that?” If you can find out what they desire and what they’re concerned about, and dig more information about those things out of them, then you know what stories to tell. You tell stories that are related to their concerns, their fears, and their desires. If you can tell stories that are connected to those three things, you will move yourself up that buying chain very, very quickly.

Mark S A Smith: Very interesting. So it’s looking at what’s holding them back from their dreams. And one of the things that I’ve learned is the higher up the food chain they go, the more that the person I’m talking with is driven by their vision, and the less they’re driven by their pain.

Sarah Victory: True. Very true. I’ve noticed the same thing. Because their job is to be visionary at the top. Their job isn’t to come up with solutions of how to do all the smaller pieces. It’s to be the visionary. And those people very often are. Those are people where you really want to ask them, “Where do you want to go? Where do you see this in five years, in three years, in a year? What would be exciting for you to see? What’s the best thing that could possibly happen?” Because they’re natural visionaries and they will tell you how to sell to them.

Mark S A Smith: The way we sell to them in that case next is a story.

Sarah Victory: Exactly. That’s where you find a story.

Mark S A Smith: And do you tell the leader’s legacy story but from another viewpoint? What’s the story formula for them?

Sarah Victory: The story formula for them usually has to do with talking about a desire that somebody had, maybe not the problem, but the desire that somebody had similar to them, and then what you did about it and the great result that they got.

Mark S A Smith: Okay.

Sarah Victory: Because we all naturally want to have what other people have.

Mark S A Smith: It’s an application of the drop-in story, but –

Sarah Victory: Right.

Mark S A Smith: … tied to their specific desire.

Sarah Victory: It’s more tied to desire than to problem.

Mark S A Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative), that’s it, that makes a difference.

Sarah Victory: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Mark S A Smith: Interesting. How do we do this on paper? Telling them in person seems to be pretty easy. We can drop in and do a quick little 90-second story or something that’s short and sweet. And the farther up the food chain we go, the less time that we’re given.

Sarah Victory: This is true. And it becomes more challenging when you’re doing it on paper, but there’s nothing that says you can’t put in a case study type example into your proposals. People do like to read stories. They get bored with all the facts and figures and all of that stuff. So … not that you don’t want to put some of that in there, but you can put stories into proposals and it will grab people.

Mark S A Smith: That’s really beautiful. A case study is a story.

Sarah Victory: Mm-hmm (affirmative), it’s a story. If you do it right it’s a really good story.

Mark S A Smith: And, if you call it a case study in a proposal, people will read it. If you say –

Sarah Victory: Right.

Mark S A Smith: “Lemme tell you a story,” they might not.

Sarah Victory: Right.

Mark S A Smith: So that’s brilliant framing, Sarah.

Sarah Victory: You never tell anybody you’re gonna tell them a story. You say, “Lemme share something that happened to me. Let me give you an example. Let me show you a case study.” And the reason you do that is because as soon as you say story, everybody thinks they’re five years old and it’s something that’s not true. So we don’t even use the word story in storytelling, which is really funny.

Mark S A Smith: That’s interesting. Yeah, “Lemme give you an example,” “Lemme share a case study,” “Lemme share something that happened.” That’s it. That’s the frame.

Sarah Victory: You never say story.

Mark S A Smith: All right. Never say story.

Sarah Victory: Never.

Mark S A Smith: If you say story, I’m gonna come over there and we’re gonna have some words.

Sarah Victory: Absolutely. Sarah said.

Mark S A Smith: Excellent. That’s so good. Tell me about some of the things you’ve done with sales people to help them improve their ability to connect initially. I know you do a lot of work with sales people. Do you do a lot of work in MLM too, don’t you?

Sarah Victory: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Mark S A Smith: And community marketing. What type of things do you share with them to help them connect with their customers? So it seems to me that MLM is one of the toughest things to sell. I sell expensive stuff. I think about MLM, I just shudder.

Sarah Victory: Oh, well, you know it’s all about creating those relationships –

Mark S A Smith: Yes.

Sarah Victory: … though, and bonding, and some people are so good at that. And they can create relationships very, very rapidly with a lot of different people. And a lot of that is sharing a story. And sometimes that’s the story of how they became successful in that direct selling or multi-level marketing group.

And that can be a leader’s legacy story again, which you can tell in a very short form or a longer form depending on what the occasion is. If it’s … you’re talking to somebody one-on-one, it might be very short, two or three minutes. If you’re telling it to a whole group or the people who are under you, you’re able to then maybe go on for five, seven, even 10 minutes telling that whole story. And getting those people all attached to that story being part of their tribe’s legacy.

Mark S A Smith: Interesting. I see now how you make that work. It’s the leader’s legacy story that’s an accordion story. You make it longer for the tribe, you make it shorter for those that don’t know the tribe.

Sarah Victory: Exactly.

Mark S A Smith: That makes it interesting then because those who listen to the story multiple times get more detail and the story becomes richer and richer as time passes.

Sarah Victory: Exactly, and you can put in different details and get into more of the experience and paint the picture. The whole job that you have is to paint a picture that is so rich and so detailed it’s like they went to a movie or that they were really right there. [inaudible 00:17:22] used to say he had a friend who would go on vacation and came back and told what happened so well it was better than going yourself.

Mark S A Smith: Yeah, no flight delays.

Sarah Victory: Exact … no flight delays, yeah we know that.

Mark S A Smith: Yeah.

Sarah Victory: Exact.

Mark S A Smith: We do know that. How do you work with people to help them improve their stories?

Sarah Victory: I generally take people and walk them through a process. I often will work with people over six sessions or twelve sessions so I have plenty of time to get to know them and find out where their real goal is in terms of their speaking ability and that’s really exciting for me.

I have them go through significant life events. I say, “Just give me a chronology of all the significant events that have happened in your life, and let’s find some of them that might make interesting stories or interesting analogies or we might have some food in there that can make you really interesting in front of a group if you’re speaking or doing a podcast or on TV or radio or if you’re selling.”

Mark S A Smith: So it’s a matter of mining your own experiences. You’re a proponent of telling your own stories versus somebody else’s stories.

Sarah Victory: I think it’s much more powerful to tell your own stories, and everybody has interesting stories. They don’t always realize they’re interesting. I remember I had one client, Jeff Salz, and he’s such an amazing guy. He was an anthropologist, he’d been around the world, and we were talking, and I said, “How did you first get started doing this?” And he said, “Oh, I had this friend of mine, Steve McAndrews, and he said, ‘We should go to Patagonia.'” He said, “My name in high school was Puffy.” “So Puffy’s gonna go to Patagonia, yeah, right.”

He said he told him, “Yeah, I don’t think so. I’m not going.” Jeff had this southern accent. He would say, “Well now, Jeff,” which he made into a four-syllable word. “Now, Jeff, if we go to Patagonia, we climb a mountain, you’ll be famous.” And he said, “Yeah, yeah, I don’t care.” Steve said, “Now Jeff, we go to Patagonia, we climb a mountain, we can name the mountain.” Jeff said, “I don’t care.” “Now Jeff, we go to Patagonia, we come famous, we go up the mountain, we name the mountain,” he said, “We come back, girls will like you.” And Jeff said he started packing his bags right then.

Mark S A Smith: Ah, that’s so good.

Sarah Victory: He went off to Patagonia. Now, what happened while he was there, they were scaling this mountain and one night Jeff was in one little pocket and Steve was in another little pocket with two of their guides. He came down and he saw that Steve was still wrapped up in his gear. And he came over and he shoved him and he said, “Steve, come on, get up. It’s a little late. Let’s get going.” And Steve didn’t move. And he shoved him again and he realized that he had frozen to death over the night.

Mark S A Smith: Oh my goodness.

Sarah Victory: Yeah, it was a terrible thing. And it was his best friend. He realized the difference between life and death had been just which pocket they had been in overnight. And he came back and he said that it was the most terrible thing that had ever happened to him and he then eventually went back to that same mountain, climbed all the way to the top and had a letter that he wrote for Steve saying, “I named this mountain McAndrews Mountain, because it’s for him, he gave me a love of adventure. And now my life is filled with adventure, whether it’s at home being a father or at work as a speaker or traveling around the world.” And I said, “Have you ever told that story in front of a group?” And he said, “No. Why would I tell that? It’s not that interesting.”

Mark S A Smith: Wow.

Sarah Victory: And I said, “Oh, my gosh, you’ve gotta be kidding.” Now, he tells it way better than I do. It’s his life, it’s his story. But you can see what an incredible experience that was and what a powerful story that is. And he had just never told it to a group because he didn’t think anybody would care.

Mark S A Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Sarah Victory: Now it’s one of his signature stories that he’s told around the world and it made him into the Speaker’s Hall of Fame.

Mark S A Smith: So no doubt you can find it on YouTube and watch him tell that story.

Sarah Victory: Yes, far better than I because he’s really special.

Mark S A Smith: Well, one thing I wanna point out about the story is something that you shared with me many, many years ago. And that is about the dynamic range and the weave of the story, and where you started off by showing that Jeff, girls are gonna like you, and then the guy that shows him that girls are gonna like him dies in the process of having girls like him. That’s a deep dynamic range.

Sarah Victory: Contrast is incredibly powerful when you’re telling a story. Light is only light next to dark. Dark is only dark next to light.

Mark S A Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative)

Sarah Victory: So if you’re going to tell something tragic, tell something funny or fun or interesting and exciting before that so it’s a bigger, deeper drop. And vice versa. If you tell something really dark, then come back out into some humor later. Not too soon. People have a tendency to not want to let the audience feel the emotions of sadness or grief, and you wanna let them feel for a minute or two and then you can pull them back out and start with some humor and some other things that bring them back up again.

But allow people to have feelings. That’s why we go to the movies. That’s why we see Titanic. That’s why 17-year-old girls went to see it a hundred times.

Mark S A Smith: Right.

Sarah Victory: You know, that’s –

Mark S A Smith: Yeah, my daughters watched it over and over.

Sarah Victory: Oh my gosh.

Mark S A Smith: With a box of Kleenex intentionally because they wanted to have their feels.

Sarah Victory: They wanted to have the feeling. And that’s why so many movies have sad endings, because we wanna feel the human experience or loss, and it’s a big part of it. So let people feel things in your stories. Make sure you tie it back into them eventually.

Mark S A Smith: That’s right. Well I long for the days of the 80s movies where every movie ended with a happy ending.

Sarah Victory: Yeah –

Mark S A Smith: Not anymore.

Sarah Victory: I do kinda love that. I do love that. Yeah, give me a good happy ending any day.

Mark S A Smith: Even in bad movies, a happy ending can be a win home.

Sarah Victory: Exactly.

Mark S A Smith: Another aspect that you taught me is you don’t wanna go down that heavy emotion too soon.

Sarah Victory: Right.

Mark S A Smith: You’ve gotta connect with the audience, have them trust you before you can take them to the dark place for that dynamic range.

Sarah Victory: Absolutely. You have to build rapport first and foremost. And then you can take them anywhere. Then they’ll go with you on any journey. But that rapport has to be there. And that can be as simple as asking three questions at the beginning and getting people to raise a hand about their experience and what they’ve been through or asking them in one or two words who can tell me about a time when they were impacted by a great leader. You can ask questions to get them involved with you. It’s a really simple, easy way to build rapport. Or you can find some other strategy of storytelling to get people involved if you’re doing a speech.

Mark S A Smith: Mm-hmm (affirmative). So maybe it’s a simple story to begin with and then you take them to a deeper story a little later on, once you’ve got that connection and the rapport.

Sarah Victory: Exactly.

Mark S A Smith: Now –

Sarah Victory: Exactly.

Mark S A Smith: … we just shifted gears from talking about sales stories to more leadership style stories.

Sarah Victory: Right.

Mark S A Smith: If I’m gonna sell to somebody, I don’t know if I’m gonna take them down that emotional rollercoaster. Or maybe I will.

Sarah Victory: You might indeed. It may not be as lengthy, but if you’re saying to somebody, “You know, two weeks ago was very sad for me,” and they say, “Why is that?” And you say, “Well, I had somebody who came to me and they were interested in buying life insurance and they postponed it and put me off and put me off and put me off, and I found out that they passed away. And I’ve been very sad because now their family won’t have anything moving forward. And I think that’s a tragedy.”

Mark S A Smith: That’s pretty –

Sarah Victory: “I don’t wanna see that happen to anyone.”

Mark S A Smith: That’s powerful.

Sarah Victory: Yeah.

Mark S A Smith: Wow. You got me on that one, Sarah.

Sarah Victory: Yeah. As long as it’s true, as long as it’s something you really feel. You can’t just do it to manipulate people.

Mark S A Smith: That’s right.

Sarah Victory: It’s gotta be something that’s real and true for you. People will sense it if it’s not.

Mark S A Smith: They sure will. People can tell. They’re getting better and better and better at sensing the truth versus the falsehood.

Sarah Victory: It’s okay to change a couple of facts. I always say facts are boring, the truth is powerful. So if you say it was raining because it was a sad day, and actually it was sunny, that’s fine. You can change facts as long as you don’t hurt anybody else. You don’t say so-and-so robbed a bank. You don’t just glorify yourself, “And then I was President.” You make sure it’s in the highest service of everybody in the room. And you make sure that it’s in keeping with what I call your super objective, your overall objective, for that interaction.

So it’s okay to change the facts, but you cannot change the truth. That core of truth has to always be there. And you know what that core of truth is, and you know when you’ve veered off of it.

Mark S A Smith: That’s right. I remember very clearly when you worked with me. We were out walking around and through a neighborhood helping me figure out that connection story that I still use today.

Sarah Victory: Ah.

Mark S A Smith: 25 years later, I still use the same story about Mr. [inaudible 00:25:55] that you helped me develop, and it was –

Sarah Victory: Aw.

Mark S A Smith: … and it was a very powerful experience. And yes, it was a leader’s legacy story, strategy that you taught me how to do. So I am so grateful for that experience. And I know that you can really help people pull out the elements that make the story work so well.

Sarah Victory: Thank you. I really love helping people with selling more and speaking more powerfully and connecting with people, then expanding their message, whether it’s through writing a book or speaking on TV, radio, podcasts, or whether it’s speaking in front of a large group or whether it’s one-on-one in those important selling situations. That is my passion.

Mark S A Smith: What are you working on now?

Sarah Victory: Right now, I have the new book that I’m working on, which is called How to be Powerful. And that’s Insider Secrets to Brilliant Leadership, Speaking and Sales.

Mark S A Smith: Wonderful –

Sarah Victory: And that’s coming out in about six months.

Mark S A Smith: Wonderful. I can’t wait to get that book.

Sarah Victory: You will. Of course. Signed copy goes to you. You are one of my favorites, as you know.

Mark S A Smith: Aw, thank you Sarah, I appreciate that. How should our listener get a hold of you if they wanna work with you, or what are the type of things that you can do to help them out?

Sarah Victory: Well, the easiest way to reach me is just through my website, which is thevictorycompany, all spelled out, thevictorycompany.com. Or Sarah, S-A-R-A-H at thevictorycompany.com. You can also find me on Facebook and LinkedIn, at Sarah Victory.

Mark S A Smith: Easy. Thank you, Sarah, for sharing the story of the stories.

Sarah Victory: Aw. Absolutely happy to. It’s been lovely connecting with you.

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